SETTING:

Chuunin Exam's Stadium

NOTES:

Sandaime can summon ENMA
Sasori can use Kazekage but not his 100 puppets
Kakashi with Mangekyou Sharingan
Kakuzu has his 5 elemental hearts
They get along with each other
Each team did not know their opponents abilities


Fight suddenly begins. . . Who wins?

At the moment it seems to me that Kakuzu and Kakashi will win.
Kakuzu can do a cranium carver with his fire heart and combined with support from wind that move can be super devastating. Granted it is easy to dodge it in an open arena but in a closed setting like the chuunin exams stadium I think that the chances of being hit by it are greatly increased. I'd say that Sasori can easily be taken care of with that move being made of wood and all he'd be incinerated as soon as it touches him. Same with the Kazekage's puppet.

The Sandaime on the other hand, I have yet to think out how that battle would pan out. However, I'd still favour him losing since it will be pretty much a six on two fight. Kakuzu with his elementals can provide time for Kakashi to prepare his MS and he should be a handful since he's supposedly fought the Shodai. Once the MS is ready Enma and Sandaime should already be cornered so that Kakashi can warp them or whatever it is his MS does.

Well, that's the way I see it but I haven't put much thought into at the moment. Maybe later my opinion will change so I'm withholding my vote for now.

thanks for your participation.

come to think of it sasori's heart to kakuzu! lol

My vote goes to Kakuzu & Kakashi.

Reason being is I remember the ridiculous speed he had and his 5 elemental hearts. Not to mention he did fight the Shodai so that shows age which equals wisdom and knowledge. Kakashi with his MS can predict what his opponent is about to do and also has speed, knowledge, etc.
I really can't see what would happen but I do see Kakuzu and Kakashi being victorious. As mentioned before it is such a small space to get away from kakashis MS attack so just that alone can end the fight. I mean Kakuzu can distract them with his speed and melee attacks while Kakashi gets his MS ready, then once activated he could cast it and warp both or one of them (I'm guessing Sandaime since hes more dangerous than sasori) which would leave Sasori alone. And Sasori with his Kazekage puppet cannot defeat Kakuzu alone so I can't imagine him defeating Kakuzu with Kakashis help.


Sorry I would explain more but I'm working out at the same time. I'm just taking my 5min break right now.

How old would the Sandaime be?

If he was still middle aged, or even in his 50's or 60's I'd say he could 2v1 them pretty convincingly. The Sandaime was considered a genius, and one of the best there ever was (he along with the 1st and the 4th are considered the best ninja's in history). The amount of chakra, speed and jutsu the guy has is absolutely amazing. He almost beat Orochimaru as a what? 75 year old? Orochimaru even admits that he would probably have no chance if he was in his prime, and Orochimaru had Kakashi quivering in his boots.

If he is a 75 year old however it is a different story. He would probably only be a bit stronger than Kakashi and Kakuzu and I think that Sasori, without his strongest move (which is actually really unfair might I add) would be just the tiniest bit out of his depth against the other two. All in all I would say that Kakashi and Kakuzu would have a slight edge.

I do think you guys are overestimating Kakashi's MS though. He has shown to only be able to use it two times in one sitting, and he is unusable and out cold after that. He has been in plenty of fights and to this date he has yet to hit anyone properly with it. The Sandaime is a genius, and it would be exceptionally difficult to hit him with it (the people he has used it on so far are nothing compared to the Sandaime), even with Kakuzu distracting him (if he did you better believe he would loose a few hearts in the process, Sasori wouldn't be just sitting on his ass). Also Kakuzu has shown to be pretty gullible, he was fooled be a simple "genin" substitution, so the battle would actually be pretty close and could honestly go either way.

If they fought 10 times, Kakashi and Kakuzu might win 6 times, and Sarutobi and Sasori might win 4 times.

to be fair, the age of Sandaime, is when he was crowned the title Hokage.
how about it?

lol well then Sarutobi and Sasori pretty easily.

please add your vote in the poll.

I voted for Kakashi and Kakuzu.

Done Creyon, sorry. I forget to place my vote in polls sometimes haha.

I wasn't overestimating the MS. I know how hard it is for Kakashi to control it. That is why I said that Sandaime and Enma should be cornered and Sasori already out of the picture by the time Kakashi activates it so that it'll be a sure hit.

*Um how old was Sarutobi when he was crowned?*

Anyway, considering that Sandaime is fighting at his prime I'd say that then the chances of his team winning are raised. The Sandaime is supposed to have a lot of jutsu and chakra. As Zeriah said, even Orochimaru admitted he would have lost against the Sandaime in his prime. Kakashi is supposedly weaker than Orochimaru and managed to kill one heart of Kakuzu so I'd say that they would lose against the Sandaime if it was just those two.
Even so, I still can't see them winning if only because Kakuzu has his hearts with him and the fight is in such a closed space. It wouldn't have been so troublesome if they were fighting in an open field. Kakuzu's elemental attacks are massive. In a confined space, dodging them would be no small task. Sasori would be incinerated by the fire heart especially if it is used in tandem with wind and the Kazekage puppet would meet the same fate. Sandaime may or may not be able to win against Kakuzu. I'd favour him winning if only because he is Hokage and people aren't crowned Hokage for nothing but still, Kakuzu did fight the Shodai and survive.

So, I'm still undecided.

A very good point Ruby. It is true that Sasori would easily be taken down by Kakuzu. (I mean SAKURA BEAT HIM!) Whiles Kakashi would be taken out in a heart beat by Orochimaru. The thing is though, if only Orochimaru and Sandaime ramained Oro could be taken down by Sandaime IF he was in his youth. And Oro would be able to take him down at his current (70) age. So overall it is a tie. Both teams have very valuable Shinobi. But for sure if any one got defeated sadly it would be my favorite characters Sasori, and Kakashi. But facts are facts. Oro and Sandaime are stronger. But I think Sasori is the weakest. It makes sense. Besides in the Manga yeah Sakura almost dies and all BUT IF SHE WERE AT A HIGHER RANK, SASORI COULD HAVE STARTED TO KISS HIS A*S A LONG TIME AGO! And same with Kakashi VS Oro. I just hope Sandaime would be young while fighting. Because when he fought Oro in the Manga not even Enma could help him win.

kakuzu's elemental jutsu's (5 hearts) against the proffesor's several elemental jutsu of his own.
that would be something!

I should've saved my vote now that I know Sandaime is fighting while in his prime. Now I can see Sandaime winning on his own. I remember when he took on both the first and second hokages on his own and won. I know they weren't at full strength but still they were the first and second hokages. However, Kakuzu is a strong and extremely fast opponent plus can match Sarutobis elemental attacks. Not to mention I believe Sasori would be taken out first leaving Sarutobi alone against two very fast opponents. One that can predict attacks, can cut any material with his Raikiri, and warp anything and anyone to a different dimension. And the other who could move even faster by miles, has all elemental attacks and can combine them, and is really six in one person so you would have to defeat him 6x's.


As much as I like Sarutobi and admire his strength and knowledge I still don't believe he can take down all 7 of them.


I would like to add: Great match btw Craeyon. This one has me pondering on the outcome. Looking forward to the next one.

My vote goes to Kakuzu and Kakashi.


Kakuzu's speed and wit combined with Kakashi's.....it's easy to tell.


But on the other hand the old man and the puppet...they are pretty destructive... but they are no match for the others ^^

thanks! i'm looking forward to add shikamaru in the face-off, maybe. haha

hi to my pal zeriah!!
lol

i'll go with sandaime and sasori. 3 kage level shinobi's (+3rd kazekage from sasori) will bring them down. sakura survived sasori because of chiyo, they were sasori's perfect counter. without the knowledge of poison, kakuzu's down considering his veins, the poison will spread throughout.

then kakashi < prime sandaime.

We are talking about the Sandaime in his prime here. He could handle both of them on his own very easily. Sarutobi in his prime was one of the best there ever was, period (it has been said by some that he was the best, but some have said the same about the 1st and the 4th). Kakashi and Kakuzu are pretty much nobodies compared to him. They are both only high level Jounin, Sarutobi in his prime was potentially the strongest person in history.

Even as an old man, he could handle both 1v1 I am almost positive (look how good he looked against Orochimaru and the 1st and 2nd hokage's, who were all far stronger than both of them). I am pretty confident that everyone agrees with me here about that, except maybe for you. The limiting factor if Sarutobi was an old man is Sasori, who without his strongest ability is outmatched by both Kakashi and Kakuzu.

I agree with you that the Sandaime could handle them in his prime but the setting of the battle is really troubling me. It's like he has to fight six opponents with wide area damaging moves in a confined space. The chances of dodging the attacks are considerably lessened. But then again, he is supposed to be one of the strongest and intelligent Hokages so he should be able to outsmart his opponents and even the Hokage showdown took place in an enclosed space against impossible to kill opponents which thankfully isn't the case here. So, the Sandaime will probably win. (I'm assuming that in this battle Sasori is defeated early on so Sarutobi is left only with Enma as support.)

nice opinions guys,. this looks more debatable.


btw kindly view my sig.!lol

If you mean you are troubled about the setting even in his prime, you need not be. We are pretty much comparing the Incredible Hulk to two ants here, they are that insignificant. It doesn't matter what either of them do, they really have no chance at all. He would be much faster than both, be far superior at ninjutsu than both (even though both can use all 6 elements), have more stamina and chakra and be much much smarter. The arena isn't a small place either, and is pretty massive, though it is enclosed. Still there would be plenty of room to dodge. But I mean Sarutobi in his prime would more than probably defeat both with a single combo. The differences between them are just that massive. We are talking about a guy that is considered one of the three strongest people in history, against a guy that lost to Naruto when he was barely jounin level and was fooled by a gennin substitution and another guy that while a genius and exceptionally abnormal in his own right can't really even be in the same ball park (or another 2 ball parks for that matter, you have the 1st, Yondaime, the Sandaime and Madara as the first otherwise known as Gods. Pain, Naruto, Sasuke, Jiraiya, Oro and Itachi as the second, the Kage level ninja. Then finally you have guys like Kakashi, Kakuzu, Sasori Kisame, Deidara, Gai etc etc who are high jounin/S-class) for obvious reasons.

If you mean if he was like he was when he fought Oro, then yes I agree it could be troubling. But even in his old age he would have a larger chakra pool (though not better physical stamina I don't think), far better ninjutsu and far better intelligence, while obviously giving up a taijutsu disadvantage to Kakashi in this case (I wouldn't say Kakuzu though since what he does isn't really Taijutsu and more like a ranged weapon, which really comes down to strategy). It would be highly unusual that he would loose, even in an enclosed setting. He is extremely intelligent and would never put himself in a position where he couldn't dodge Kakuzu's elemental blast. It is also not really like fighting 6 people either, I mean sure he takes the amount of punishment that 6 people would, and has the elemental chakra affinities of six but that is hardly like 6 people, at least not six strong people.

Of course the fight is 2v2, and if Sarutobi was old he would have a very real chance at loosing. However I think the battle would be better fought with Kakashi and Kakuzu taking out Sasori, not Sarutobi first. It would be exceptionally difficult getting rid of Sarutobi with an elemental blast, MS or anything even when it is 2v1 let alone while having Sasori harassing both of you constantly which would be next to impossible. Sasori would be a much easier target, and if Kakashi and Kakuzu got a moment where Sarutobi was distracted they would make short work of Sasori 2v1. After that they can take their time, and just wait for an opportunity, or until Sarutobi becomes physically exhausted. Obviously distracting Sarutobi would be difficult, which is why in this case it could go either way. Like I said, if they fought 10 times Kakuzu and Kakashi might win 6 times and Sarutobi and Sasori 4. But I still think this way is far more likely to succeed. Taking out Sarutobi as an old man, even in 2v1 would take time, time that they don't have with someone as dangerous as Sasori all up their asses.

i almost forgot Hiruzen was also the teacher of 3 Great ninja's, although Orochimaru was genuis already.
i'm looking forward on kakashi's MS as an x-factor, i still don't know kakashi MS full potential.

As much as I like kakashi sempai ,with sandaime on his prime I believe the edge goes to sandaime & sasori...the professor is (open to debate) a definite match for kakashi, and he has WAY more stamina and chakra, the fight would be even for the most part, but if kakashi and kakuzu are unable to finish it soon, kakashi's sharingan will take a toll on his chakra, and the upper hand will go to sandaime and sasori.
As convenient as it seems for the elemental combinations of kakuzu in an enclosed space, same could be told about the use of puppet weaponry sasori has at his disposal...
It would be a long and devastating battle...and time is unfortunately not on kakashi's side....
a great match, but I am leaning towards Sandaime and sasori...(the professor was hokage for a reason!!!...)

I am honestly pretty shocked that you think a fight with the Sandaime, in his prime would even be close. Kakashi and Kakuzu are absolute pups compared to Sarutobi. He outclasses both in every aspect so ridiculously that the sharingan/MS or 6 hearts/elemental jutsus would play absolutely no factor at all. It would be a laughably embarrassing fight.

I mean the fight would be like Naruto while in sagemode verse Konahomaru and his little girl friend or something. The differences between them are just honestly that massive.

I would like to know why you think Sarutobi in his prime is a "debatable match" for Kakashi. I mean it's like you think Kakashi would be considered the favorite. I am pretty confident that Sarutobi could fight and beat Kakashi with both hands tied behind his back, with a blindfold while watching tv (I know that doesn't make sense but that's just how badass Sarutobi was in his prime, he can watch tv while blind folded ). He would have obviously tooled even Orochimaru while in his prime, a man that Kakashi was utterly terrified of. He would destroy Pain, and would quite probably beat Madara.

"About even"? Honestly I can't tell if you are half joking here or not because you love Kakashi haha. You have to know that Sarutobi in his prime is light years ahead of both of them. You don't even need bother mentioning Sasori, Sarutobi would kill both alone within 20 seconds.

Even if it was 10 Kakashi's Sarutobi would still have a good chance of winning (Kakashi lost to just God Realm >.>).

Well keep in my that Kakuzu survived a battle against the 1st Hokage and that was before his heart taking abilities. You can assume that even Madara didn't put up a better fight just by what we were told... Which is why I didn't like his performance at all in the battle we saw. But I digress, Kakuzu would probably not be as strong as Sandaime in his prime, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that he is a "pup" in relation to him.

I personally don't know any of Sandaime's (high ranking) techniques to even give an answer to this.

i don't even think that kakashi was still afraid of orochimaru in shippuden that much he has developed based on the databooks. Remember kakashi can copy Sandaime Hokage's overwhelming jutsu's but i still hate kakashi's stamina, to say the least.

it's kinda hard to say what would happen there are so many varriables to be considered and no matter how you look at it no one really has a clue what the 3rd was like in his prime considering the only time we ever see him fight he's conserving chakara and is fighting kinda half heartedly (simmilar to how naruto fights sasuke at the valley of the end for a lost of the time, hes not really trying all out to kill sasuke just kick his ass/stop him) i mean i remember something about the 3rd being named the hokage at the age he is in the picture of him with the 1st and 2nd but that might have been ff or noncannon anime?

assuming that saratobi had better movement by like 10% and more power by half or so id put him somewhere around kakashi's speed i mean kage's all seem to have rediculouce speed but people rant on and on about how fast kakashi is + saratobi in his prime wouldnt have the soul reaper seal (tho that makes little difference as i dont see him using it in this fight in his prime) sasori's cant use his 100's of pupets does that mean the scrole that he drew in his fight or is he limited to his current model, the 3rd(wind) and his pupet body? kakazu couldnt use his wider range attacks as his partener isnt imortal (a big part of the combo was that hidan kept the target stationary(ish) and could survive being insinorated on a regular bases) kakashi is likely to be the linch pin of this fight with his chakara, while if you look at his stats its actually at the same level as saratobi's he burns throught it way to fast and usually ends up in trouble. humm

i wonder if kakashi's chidori owuld cut through a iron sand defensive ball? and who would out between the 3rd and kakazu underground? (they both have earth techniques and kakazu is likely to light the arena on fire wether or not kakashi's in the way leaving him and sasori to duke it out on the walls of the stadium for a bitemmna wouldnt be cut by kakshi's attck's im pretty sure but whats a pole gunna do against a long range fighter (well medium) and someone with sharingan? can kakashi use his dogs like he did against zabuza (im fairly sure he was just showing off with all that scrole twirling back then) that could cause sassori some minor trouble if he's only got one body out (or at least get rid of one of his pupets) and saratobi if he didnt see it comming and didnt have emmna with him could be in trouble he's never been that powerful (strenght wise)

humm this would be a good fight tho i recon that hopeing it'd be confined to the arena is a lil nieve unless we've got some barrier as it more than likely end up trashed.

not the point tho as far as i can tell saratobi can use earth and fire nature techniques he can probably manage small scale in the other elements but i think you could disscount this in the present company and sasori seemed to have fire and water (tho that might be interchangable as pupet users dont seem to utalise elementsso that pose's the question without lightening how would you take kakazu down?

i think kakashi would die first after causing a fair amount of carnage and breaking seveal of sasories pupets (the weird one he travels in and the third im thinking) and then sasori would bite it mabye kakazu using his heart as a spare (mabye he'd even nab kakshi's) then it'd be a throw down between the 3rd and kakazu while i recon the 3rd in his prim is above kakazu by a lot (you can't use stupidity against naruto as a defence everyone screws up against the main character) i just dont see a way round that earth heart, mabye if he didnt have a morals since its likely he knew the reserection technique oro use at least he looked as though he was familiar with a less 'perfected' version? he could summon a half decent lightening user and get rid of the armor then its be intresting. id say eventualy it go to saratobi but only if kakazu's metal skin went bye bye

here are the stats of everyone involved (http://www.leafninja.com/fullbio.php?p=Hatake_Kakashi http://www.leafninja.com/biographies-K.php#Kakuzu http://www.leafninja.com/biographies-S.php#Sasori http://www.leafninja.com/fullbio.php?p=Sarutobi_Hizuren admitedly the stats havent been altered for the handicaps on sasori and saratobi but its a good start)

i'l leave my vote till this is disscussed a bit as im kinda unsure myself

Sarutobi and Sasori would beat them. Kakashi has mengekyou sharingan but gets tired easily. All they have to do is wear him out and itz over. Kakuzu is powerful but he will have his hands full going against Sasori, since Sasori transfers his heart to a different body. After they wear out Kakashi them take out Kakuza.

"Survived" is a very loose word. He could have been knocked out cold instantly and the 1st wouldn't even give him a second glance. What we do know is that Kakuzu is weaker than Naruto, when he was to be perfectly honest fighting at basic jounin level. It is pretty laughable to assume that Madara didn't put a better fight than a guy that lost to a weakass Naruto, we have seen the two page spread. The battle would have been insane, and the 1st probably only just won.

Sarutobi as an old man was almost as strong as Orochimaru, who would beat both with ease. In his prime his speed would be at least 3 times as fast, along with more chakra and much more stamina which in turn leads to more powerful jutsus.

Sarutobi is one of the best there ever was, implied by some to be the strongest ever. He is a guy that comes around once every 50 years (there has only been 4 people total in history that were around his level). People like Kakashi and Kakuzu are a dime a dozen these days; Kakashi, Gai, Deidara, Asuma, Kurenai, Sasori, Kisame, Konan, Suigetsu I mean the list goes on and on. In fact there is another whole level that are stronger than these guys before you get to people like Sarutobi, which would be people like Naruto, Sasuke, Pain, Itachi and the Sannin. I mean honestly any of these guys would probably beat Kakashi and Kakuzu 2v1 (look at Pain) and Sarutobi is on an even higher level than these guys.

i agree that the 3rd and sasori will win, but common, it's very inappropriate to compare this match to the statements above.,it's just not right., we don't even have a clear clue in the history of sandaime.in his prime to give such vague statements.

and kakuzu was not 100% when naruto used rasenshuriken.

deep words jack.

It was an exaggerated joke

But you get my point.

The reason you can assume is that he was holding his own against the 1st and 2nd Hokage's and Orochimaru when he was old, VERY OLD (each of these people would beat Kakuzu and Kakashi). His power would obviously be several times greater in his prime. You can also assume because he was considered one of the best there ever was. Kakashi and Kakuzu are good, but are two whole levels below Sarutobi. I mean would you think that Pain could defeat both 2v1? What about Jiraiya, Naruto or Sasuke? Well Sarutobi, you can be 99.9% certain would be in a whole other league to even those guys.

The supposed differences are just massive. Maybe not Naruto in sage mode verse Konohamaru, but a more accurate description would Naruto in Sagemode verse Kiba and Hinata or something (Naruto is "two levels" above these guys). He would just thrash these two. The same would honestly be true with Sarutobi against Kakashi and Kakuzu.

I am going with Sandaime n Sasori,more for the reason tat Sandaime is there. Even at 70 he managed to take on Oro with his summonings(He summoned the First n Second Hokage),Therefore i am going for their win:-)

please add your votes to the poll.

I still think Kakuzu and Kakashi.


Kakuzu had tied in battle with the first hokage and wasn't even in the akatsuki yet! But now Kakuzu could handle the Third and the old man is almost out numbered! I would think that Sasori would get the old mans back but then If Kakuzu used his skin hardening technique........this fight is over. I mean Kakuzu's speed is really great....but his intellect is even better than Shikamaru's! plus conbined with Kakashi....yeah. But they would have a challange against Sasori and the Old man....but I still think They would win.

Kakuzu lost to a weakass Naruto, with a gennin substitution type move, and you are comparing him to the 1st Hokage and assuming that he tied with him? That's pretty funny haha. All we know is that he "survived" a battle with the 1st Hokage. The 1st could have just beat him in one second, deemed him not worthy enough to kill and let him be. What we do know is that he lost to Naruto, with no fox/sagemode (which back then would only mean about jounin level). He was also loosing to Kakashi, and would have lost if Kakashi had more stamina (he was getting his ass kicked badly, but Kakashi became exhausted). Also the "Old Man" isn't old in this situation, we are talking about Sarutobi when he was first made Hokage, which would be in his prime.

I mean look at his fight with Orochimaru and the 1st and 2nd Hokages, he looked absolutely incredible. He would beat either of them 1v1 even as an old man you can be sure of that (Orochimaru is clearly MUCH stronger than both of those guys, let alone the 1st and 2nd hokages)...As a young guy in his 30's/40's he would be unstoppable, you must know this -_-

His speed is great? Not at all, he barely moves and just sends out tendrils. Smart? No, he is ridiculously stupid. He was fooled by a gennin substitution. Sarutobi is probably the smartest person in history. In his prime his speed would be ridiculous (far superior to Kakashi's, even when he was old he was almost as fast as him), he knows probably 100's of jutsu's all of which would be devastating with the skill he has with them. It would literally be over in seconds and one combo. Seriously this guy is about as strong as Minato, do you think that Kakuzu and Kakashi would beat him?

Sarutobi was said to be one of the best ever. I mean Christ man this is pretty ridiculous of you for to even think it would be close. He lost to Naruto, he would loose to Sasuke, Pain, Itachi, any of the Sannins or Bee and Sarutobi has clearly been inferred to be even stronger than these guys. I don't know, I think you guys are just being blinded here because these guys are your favorite characters or something. Kakashi and Kakuzu are mere high jounin level ninja (there are like 10 of these alive right now). You have regular Kage level before you even get to the godlike power that is Madara/Sarutobi/The 1st/Minato.

I think you guys have this assumption that he wouldn't be much stronger than he was as a 70 year old. He would be at least 3 times better, at 70 your body is weaker, you are several times slower and you tire far easier. This is even true for athletes, at 70 you are far weaker/slower/unfit than you were before even if you still keep in shape. So as a 70 year old he was on even footing with Orochimaru and the 1st and 2nd Hokages (even though they were weaker in this state obviously) all of which are much stronger than both Kakuzu and Kakashi. So in his prime, he would be several times stronger than he was then. You guys really need to understand that, he is one of the best there ever was and Kakashi and Kakuzu are so far below him that they aren't even on the radar.

kakuzu is smart, he analyzes situation in the battle against shikamaru, shika was even surprised that kakuzu countered the shadow bind by leaving his hands underneath the earth surface, and shika was pretty impressed that his perfect plan was countered.

kakuzu is also fast enough, you were saying he barely moves? he merely teleported in front of chouji in a second in like 7meter distance. now thats speed.

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!! No one not Kakuzu, not madara, not all the Peins all together, not Oro, not Hanzou, not even Jiraiyah could ever defeat Minato. Minato could "quite frankly", beat anyone to a pulp with one move. Hence why Kishimoto had him dead before the series even started. He knows if Minato was still alive their will be no Akatsuki, their will be no attack from Oro, etc..


Srry to go off topic is just that statement is filled with BS.


Back on topic:


I still think Kakuzu is extremely fast, but not Minatos speed. Still they are both fighting the sandaime in his prime.....the thought of that alone still makes me ponder for the victor on this match.

There have been people that have said Sarutobi was the strongest ever, the same with the 1st. That is what I am saying. Sarutobi is considered to be just as strong as Minato, that is the point. For some reason you guys don't consider him to be at that level, well he is. I find it extraordinary that you guys just seem to dismiss Sarutobi, but Minato a guy we have barely ever seen fight (once before he was even at his best) is considered a god to all of you. I know Minato would destroy all of those guys you listed, but Sarutobi would do the exact same thing. I just have no clue why you guys think that Minato would, but not Sarutobi. It's either because Minato is a popular character (the same with Kakashi, rofl at him lasting more than a second with an at his prime Sarutobi) or some of you have this "skewed"or "warped" view on Sarutobi.

Just look at this: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Hiruzen_Sarutobi "Hiruzen was unarguably one of most powerful shinobi in history. He has been called the most powerful Hokage in history. Enma commented on his battle with Orochimaru, saying that it was "miserable" compared to his prime even though he had clearly been able to withstand Orochimaru and two former Hokage. He was also the longest living and longest reigning Hokage, and apparently had an undefeated streak, having defeated all foes that came before him until he sacrificed himself in order to stop Orochimaru.

Hiruzen was called The Professor (プロフェッサー, Purofessā) due to his mastery of all forms of shinobi combat and his vast knowledge of jutsu, purportedly knowing all the techniques within Konoha."

I mean Christ, we have here one of the most powerful Shinobi in history, and was said to be the strongest Hokage ever (although this is a huge contradiction because Minato was also considered the strongest, and the 1st has been widely referred to be also) and you are comparing him to Kakashi and Kakuzu, mere high jounin when there are 5+ of these a generation. I am honestly baffled that you guys think it is close. I am just assuming you are being blinded by Kakashi here (since he is the favorite character of many in this thread), otherwise I might have to assume some of you have a severely warped view of the Naruto Universe.

Edit: Craeyon I'd put it more like this:
10/10: Sarutobi, Minato, the 1st and Madara
8/10: Pain, Naruto, Sasuke, Itachi, the Second Hokage, the Sannin and possibly Bee
6/10: Kakashi, Kakuzu, Deidara, Gai, Asuma, Kurenai, Garra, Konan, Suigetsu, Jugo, Sasori, Kisame, Yamato and Hidan that I can think of right now
4/10: Neji, Sakura, ANBU, Regular Jounin (like Ino/Shika/Chouji's fathers)
2/10: Rest of the Rookie 9 +Gai's team and Special Jounin
0/10: Gennin/weak chuunin

Mitsuhide Akechi i hope you'll vote a day or two.

poor sasori, he's been out of the conversation for a while. i also find kakuzu as a 7.0/10 fighter (where naruto is 9.8/10 currently) and the third in his prime 10/10. But i guess we could never see him fight in his 30's-40's that would be something.!

My previous post was to Jack Hammer because he says kakuzu could wipe the floor or something with Minato. Its an opinion and I respect that but its a fact that the 4th was the strongest shinobi who ever lived (and can defeat anyone in the series) stated by his teacher Jiraiyah who in turn was taught by Sarutobi, I believe even Sarutobi himself stated the same?. Don't get me wrong Zeriah I agree with you completely that the third can easily be matched up or even surpass the 4th hence why I'm so dumb-founded why I voted before knowing that he was in his prime.

I voted for Kakuzu and kakashi but when I did, I didn't know that the third would be in his prime. I believe that Sarutobi was even called a god amongst ninjas by Orochimaru?


@Craeyon

I voted for Kakuzu & Kakashi the day the poll was put up before it was stated that the 3rd was in his prime. Knowing that I null my vote (if I can) and switch to the third and sasori. If that is possible bro. If not then thats cool, from now on I'll hold my vote till I know all the facts of the fight.


Oh heres an Idea for a match: Minato Vs everyone else lol. He would still win with one move...Hiranshin. I might be overrating that move but c'mon, he took out 100 or more high rank ninjas in that one move alone that's something no one else has been able to do not to mention he created possibly the most powerful concentrated jutsu in the whole series, the rasengan. Ironically his son perfected something with it that he couldn't do. Just for the record, no he is not my absolute favorite. If I had to put my favorites in order it would be like this:

1.Kakashi
2.Jiraiyah
3.Minato
4.Itachi
5.The Third
6.Asuma
7.New Naruto

Ah sorry for the confusion then man.

Actually after a little digging Jiraiya only said that "Minato was easily one of the most gifted shinobi who ever lived", great things have also been said about him by other people (such as one of the best ever etc etc, including the 3rd). The 1st was looked upon by awe by everyone too, but actually no one has ever said either was the best ever. But I know I remember reading where it was stated that Sarutobi was "The strongest Hokage in history" and that being in the Wiki confirms my belief (I looked at it only a few hours ago). So in fact Sarutobi was the only one of the three who was said to be the strongest ever, meaning he could very possibly be stronger than both.

The Flying Thunder God technique is as you say, overrated, and is only really so devastating a technique upon average ninja, and only when he had his whole squad throw out the kunai (which is how he dispersed them in battle). Obviously it was an incredible move in the above situation and he could wipe out 100's of these ninja with the technique as long as he had his squad, which gave his opposition the "flee on site" order. But it wouldn't work so well on extremely powerful Kage level + ninja in a 1v1 fight. Kage level ninja, and ninja that are beyond even that in a 1v1 fight would simply throw away, destroy or avoid the kunai (since without a squad to throw them, there wouldn't be anywhere near as many), Kunai aren't really that difficult to spot. Or you could of course simply not allow him to throw them haha. Once you take that away you are left with someone who is beatable by those that are beyond Kage level (The 1st/Madara/ The 3rd), but even without the Flying Thunder God Technique his speed and jutsu ability would still destroy anyone but the above 3, and he could very well stilll beat those three. Unless of course he went all suicidal and used the Shinigami, but that would make it draw >.>

Edit: I see Jackhammers post now, I missed it before. No if you are fooled by a gennin style'd substitution you are not smart, and he hardly teleported in front of Chouji. What he did has been replicated by countless ninja, including Chuunin. He is not known for his Taijutsu, what he is known for is staying at range and peppering his opponents with long range tendrils/multiple element chakra blasts. Kakashi was outclassing him in Taijutsu, Ninjutsu and battle strategies very comfortably. Kakashi was easily stronger than Kakuzu in all aspects, and would have beaten him multiple times if not for his extra hearts.

i'm sorry for not clearing the details of the fight next time i'll surely list it before i made a topic.
thx Mitsuhide Akechi

don't get me wrong.

okay here's my point

3RD and Sasori will win. but i don't like how you underestimate kakuzu, you said that kakashi would easily kill kakuzu if he does not have his hearts? that's his ABILITY. same goes for kakashi, kakuzu would beat him multiple times if not for his sharingan.

kakashi just mentioned: "(to kakuzu) This guy is extremely powerful, we would have been killed thanks for your perfdect timing (naruto)" this time kakuzu is in his 40% when naruto used wind style rasen. and destroyed kakuzu., don't get me wrong even kakashi was fooled when kakuzu hitted naruto with his threads, in a sense that he thought naruto was beaten up.

I am not underestimating Kakuzu, he is a strong ninja and so is Kakashi but the fact of the matter is both are only High Jounin level ninja. Only a very small percentage of people are that strong, but Sarutobi is possibly the best that ever lived and is beyond even Kage level in strength. It would not be a close fight and that is a 100% certain fact.

since Mitsuhide changes vote (i blame myself though)
the poll currently will be

Kakuzu & Kakashi -1
Sandaime & Sasori +1

meaning

Kakuzu & Kakashi 7
Sandaime & Sasori 7

i'll decide the winner maybe for 5 or 6 days.
so vote now!! or else~

sorry again guys


*how about putting madara in our next craeyon face-off??* haha

with little effort. His raw strength was great enough to catch one of Choji's enlarged punches with a single hand and punch down an iron gate, as well as lifting and choking two people simultaneously. This was further supplemented by his taijutsu skills shown when during his fight with Kakashi (who was quite skilled in taijutsu himself) he mixed his hardening and extending abilities with his taijutsu.

Kakuzu was shown to be a keen analyst as well, which was somewhat attributable to his age. In the anime, he seemed somewhat more observant, easily noticing that Shikamaru was taking his time to formulate a plan to counter Hidan's technique after the former caught his partner in his Shadow Imitation Technique. He was able to quickly discern the purpose of Shikamaru's various shadow attacks and devised ways to counter them almost instantaneously during the battle.


Source: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Kakuzu

if you were saying kakuzu was stupid because a kawarimi fooled him, let me say this:

even byakugan can't even tell the diffence, and what will?
heck, i never saw a nin which can refer to the real naruto after a kagebunshin.. meaning they'll have to eliminate the bunshin's first before knowing the real naruto.

furthermore, guys that fight naruto uses jutsu that can cover up large amount of space (katon: grand fireball for exam.)
just to eliminate the bunshin's because there is no OTHER way to refer the caster.

No he knew Naruto used Kage Bushin, it was an extremely obvious move and about the only thing Naruto could have done to him. He should have saw it coming a mile away, substitution jutsus are used by everyone all the time. If he was fooled by one, it means his intelligence is not great, at least not at the average high jounin level. He might have countered Shikamaru, but he could not even see Naruto's move coming (a hell of a lot of people predicted what Naruto was going to use) that means he is not that smart, or at least his on the fly reaction and analysts are not exceptional. There is no two ways about it, you loose from a Gennin style'd substitution you are not that intelligent. It is not hard to counter his bushins, Naruto was around 100 meters away from him, there is no excuse, he could have stopped both Naruto and his bushin before he has even moved 20 meters (since Naruto is pretty slow).

Also he had seen Shikamaru and his jutsu before, so he obviously just studied the effect of the jutsu since he knew he would be going back to Konoha for Naruto. You would be an absolute fool not to study the abilities of a person you let escape when you are going to be invading his territory once again. This means that while he studied and countered Shikamaru's move and is a pretty good analyst, his on the fly deductions and strategies are not that great (as opposed to Naruto who makes up great counters and strategies on the fly). Even when he was fighting Kakashi, Hidan says "Lets do the usual", they just use the same offensive battle techniques almost every fight. So as said in the original post each team has no prior knowledge of the oppositions skill/techniques, Kakuzu would be like a fish out of water here and would have no idea how to counter his opponents techniques.

Kakashi was still far superior to him at Taijutsu, and Chouji is extremely slow. Being strong is only a small part of taijutsu, his taijutsu abilities are very defensive. He does not like to engage in taijutsu combat, what he likes to do is use his tendrils at range to inflict damage and if they somehow get past him he will harden his body to absorb or counter the damage. That does not make you excellent at taijutsu, even the wiki doesn't say he was. He does not like to move, he is not that fast or skilled at tradition taijutsu. Of course he is far better than a jounin level ninja, but if he was to stand toe to toe with any high jounin who specializes in taijutsu (such as Asume, Kakashi, Gai or Kisame) and just use tradition taijutsu he would be torn apart. He is a ranged/ninjutsu fighter. Kakashi was able to find ways around both his range and ninjutsu and once he did he pretty much killed him two times. Kakuzu is not even that great at either (at least he isn't at Kakashi level), in fact he is one of the weakest High Jounin level in terms of skill (only Hidan would really be weaker), and can only "hang" with high jounin level ninja because he is hard to kill (he was outclassed in every aspect by Kakashi that is a fact). Heck Kakashi might have won if it was 1v1, he had to use 2 extra Chidori's partly because of Hidan at the beginning of the fight.

I am just blown away, do you really think this fight would be close? Or are you just arguing because you think I underestimate Kakuzu? It is a fact that an in his prime Sarutobi was quite possibly the strongest Ninja to ever exist. It is also a fact that Kakashi and Kakuzu are both High Jounin level ninja, and that they are two whole levels below people of Sarutobi's skill. It is not that Kakashi and Kakuzu are weak, it is just that Sarutobi is too strong and pretty much unbeatable. The fight would not be close, it is a fact and if you think it would be you are deluding yourselves or you have no idea about the capabilities of some ninja in this series.

i respect all of your assumptions,
but tbh you're the only person i've heard from that:

kisame is almost strong as gai (mr craeyon battle 1)
and kakuzu can be beaten up by kakashi

http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=357702&page=2

i have been to countless naruto forums check the link

where kakuzu vs kakashi-

kakashi- 6
kakzu- 28

the votes, pawnage

^edit^

btw im TWF there

If you actually read my post you would know that I agree that in a fight Kakuzu would defeat Kakashi. In terms of skill though Kakashi outclasses Kakuzu. Here is how I see a fight between them going: Kakashi is winning, using lots of chakra by using his sharingan and extremely intensive Chidori/other jutsu. He might take out between 2-4 hearts. After that Kakashi is exhausted and Kakuzu kills him. Heck just as many people in that thread you linked think said the fight would be super close but Kakuzu just pulling out the victory (I don't even think it would be close, once Kakashi uses 4 Chidori or an MS he is done no question about it). Also I love how everyone in that thread just says "stomp tentacle rape" and uses no reasoning at all.

I also don't think Kisame is weaker than Gai. I just don't think Kisame is 3 times stronger than Gai (since his Speed and Strength would be no better in the flesh, and the 30% chakra would not be much of a factor for someone with a chakra supply as large as his).

Do you still think a fight with Sarutobi in his prime would be close against Kakashi and Kakuzu? You have avoided the question for your past 3 or so posts.